Tales from the Furnace: Ken Posner Pre-Race Q&A

Kenneth Posner is one of the most grounded ultrarunners I know, and I mean that as the highest of compliments. The 49-year-old family man and Wall Street analyst adopts a level-headed and sensible approach to running that approaches Zen-like simplicity. I think anyone reading this interview will find it quite inspiring. The man is not an elite athlete, and yet he has accomplished some extraordinary feats, including numerous 100 mile race finishes and completing both the Brazil 135 and Badwater 135 in 2010. This year, Ken will be running Badwater for the second time. I talked with him about life, family, work, running, and a charity he is very passionate about: the New York Road Runners Youth Service Programs. I invite you to get to know Ken and what makes him tick as he prepares to run "the world's toughest footrace."

Ken, let’s start from the beginning. Where did you grow up?

Chicago.

What were your hobbies growing up?

I did karate and fencing. I played around with computers a lot. Typical stuff.

Would you say you were an athletic child?

No, not really. I was very bad in gym. I was the guy who was picked last for teams in gym class. I got better over time, but I was definitely not talented in any noticeable way.

I was doing some research and found out that your father is a highly accomplished scholar. Judge Richard Posner graduated Harvard Law School, clerked for Supreme Court Justice William Brennan from 1963 to 1965, appointed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit in 1981, and now teaches at the University of Chicago School of Law. Tell me what kind of man your father is and what kind of values he instilled in you growing up.

He was and is a good father. When we were growing up, he encouraged us without pressuring us to do anything we didn’t want to do. One thing I would say that characterizes my father is that he is very logical, and he doesn’t have patience for bad logic. This is obviously very important for a judge, but it’s also important for life, in general. I learned not to make up things. We all have a tendency to make up things rather than face reality. But, he had little patience for weak logic or delusion. I think it’s a good discipline.

What did your mother do?

She took care of the house and the kids.

You later went on to study at Yale University. What did you study there?

I was an English major.

You graduated in 1985. Did you go straight from Yale to grad school?

No, I served in the U.S. Army for four years as an infantry officer.

What made you want to serve?

In college, I appreciated and enjoyed my studies as an English major, but I found myself lacking clear direction with respect to the job market and career choices and advanced degrees. I latched onto the military as an opportunity to develop some real-world skills, some management and leadership capabilities. Also, I was excited about the opportunity to serve my country. So, I joined ROTC in my junior year at Yale, and graduated with a regular army commission and went onto active duty.

Did you find what you were looking for?

Absolutely. The army was a great experience. I was stationed in Fort Benning, Georgia, and Fort Ord, California. I was fortunate to benefit from the leadership, training, and discipline of some very talented people. I was also fortunate not to be deployed to actual combat – although I was ready to: I served in Rapid Deployment Force units for most of my four years. I think of it as my second education, but this time it was in leadership, management, operations, and discipline.

What did you do after the army?

I went back to getting an advanced degree – an MBA – from the University of Chicago.

Tell me about working on Wall Street. What does a Wall Street analyst do?

A Wall Street analyst’s job is to research companies and recommend stocks to the analyst's investor clients. Everybody on Wall Street is an analyst to some degree or another. But, research analyst is the job I had. I worked at Morgan Stanley. Analysts are the people you will see quoted in the papers from time to time talking about a company and its prospects and their views on whether the stock is a good investment or not. Today I work in management at a company called Capital Bank, where I spend most of my time on acquisitions and business planning.

Now, after a period of financial prosperity in through 2004 and 2005 – home prices were soaring, consumers and investment banks were happy - something quite catastrophic happened in 2007 that affected you greatly on a professional level. Tell me about the subprime mortgage crash and what you took out of that experience.

The subprime mortgage crash, with hindsight, is a classic "Black Swan" type episode.

And what is a black swan?

It’s a surprise that seemingly could not have been predicted based on past data. The markets are full of these kinds of surprises, day in and day out. Usually, they affect one company and not the entire global economy. So, I would say Wall Street, across my entire career, was an education in understanding volatility and trying to predict it where possible and, where not, learning to react quickly to changing events and information.

What was it like being on Wall Street at that time?

Certainly, it was a rocky ride for anybody involved in the markets as well as everybody else. It went from studying the fundamentals for a group of companies and then gradually realizing that the implications of this extended not only to these companies but to the entire economy, and then even to the potential success or failure of one’s own firm.

Can this concept of the black swan be applied to other aspects of life, other than the obvious application to the markets?

Yes, I would say that since we are not able to foresee the future very far, there are all sorts of places where we can be surprised, and that’s just the fate of not being omniscient. As a philosophy of life, I believe it’s very important to be able to anticipate, where you can, how things can change, but also to learn to react very quickly if you realize you are wrong about something.

That’s really interesting, and I want to come back to this idea of volatility in life a little later on, but I’d like talk a little bit about your running career right now. When did you start running?

I first started running when I was 15 years old, trying to get in better shape for the fencing I was doing back then. My fencing coach told me I should start running to improve my fitness and make me more competitive, but I very quickly discovered I had an issue, which is called chronic compartment syndrome. It affects the muscles in your shins. Like clockwork, after about twelve minutes of running, my shins would start to go numb.

So running wasn’t very enjoyable for you in the beginning?

No, it was a very uncomfortable situation that caused my feet to sort of flop. I put up with it for a number of years, including through the army, and I even ran my first marathon in 1986 with the condition. Eventually, I had it corrected in 1992 through a surgical procedure which is actually reasonably effective. They make an incision in the fascia that surrounds the shin muscle and that allows the shin muscle to expand to its proper size. But, I guess I must have liked running on some level because I stuck with it and put up with the condition even though it hampered me from achieving whatever my potential at that time might have been. Something about running appealed to me, but it didn’t become an important part of my life until much later.

When did the concept of the ultramarathon first enter your consciousness?

When I was in karate a long time ago – again, I was in my teens – I remember someone in my town who was thought be a very tough guy because, when he turned 40 years old, he had gone out and run 40 miles. So people talked about this. Of course, I forgot about that. But, when I turned 39, I remembered it and I thought, “Gosh, maybe I should do something for my 40th birthday.” I started thinking about that guy, but did not succeed in covering 40 miles for my birthday. Then, one day I was out for a run out in the country. I met an older gentleman out there. He was in his 50s, and he was running with his dog. We started running together. I asked him how far he was going, and he said he was doing 16 miles. I said, “You must be training for a marathon.” He said, “No, I’m training for a 100 mile race.” My jaw just dropped. I was stunned because, first of all, I thought once you turned 50, that was it. I had never heard of anyone in their 50s doing anything athletic. And, secondly, I had never heard of a 100 mile race before. When I went back home, I looked it up on the internet, and I found out these races in fact existed. I had not done the 40 miles that I set out to do for my 40th birthday, but I realized it might be more interesting to pick a race and train for it and have a goal and a reason to subject myself to the necessary training. Eventually, I ran my first ultra in 2006, out on Angel Island in San Francisco Bay.

What made you want to do these races?

I realized that as I got older I needed to make a commitment to fitness just to sustain myself. We talked about the crash in 2007, but there was also a crash in 2001 and there was significant volatility in my sector in the late 1990s. I saw people fall by the wayside because of health issues. I realized that I needed to make a commitment to keeping myself in shape if I was going to survive Wall Street and do the things that I needed to do to provide for my family.

Speaking of family, what does yours think about your running?

Well, I think they think it’s interesting, but they have their own interests. I think they respect the commitment and the discipline that I put into my training. Beyond that, they have their own passions. Both my son and daughter are in track and they have their own running. I don’t try to make my ultras something that has to involve the whole family. Even if I did, they’d probably tell me to get lost anyhow. [Laughs].

What is your wife’s name?

Sue.

When were you married?

We were married in 1994.

How did you two meet?

I actually met her in Chicago. She was a physical therapist, and I actually went to see her because my back was bothering me from what little running I was doing at the time. She made a positive impression on me, so after the treatment was over, I came back and asked her out.

How old are your kids?

Emeline, my daughter, is 16 years old, and Phillip is 13 years old.

Do you run with them or do you usually run alone?

They run with me occasionally. But, usually, I run alone. Sometimes I will take our dog, Odie Doodle, with me on long runs. He's a labradoodle, and he can go for three to five hour long runs. He loves it. We also have a pet mouse named Ultra Mouse, and he runs on his little wheel all night long.

[Laughs] Well, I guess you have some company then for those all-night runs! Tell me, as a father, husband, and a professional, how do you manage to balance you’re your running career with your personal and professional life? And was that balance difficult to achieve?

It’s all a question of time. We all have just 24 hours in a day. And most of us need to spend about a third of that time sleeping. You can spend your time wherever you want, and there are always going to be tradeoffs. I do spend a bit of time running. My peak training for Badwater, for instance, will be about 90 miles per week. That said, I don’t spend as much time training as some other people do. But, I do make sacrifices for this kind of running. For example, I don’t go to a lot of sporting games. I don’t play golf. I don’t watch TV. I don’t go to a lot of parties. You have to decide where you are going to spend the time. And you have to be clever, too. You have to juggle things. Prioritizing, juggling, and cutting out the inessential. Those are the techniques you need to develop in order to do what you want to do and not just get pulled along by life.

You say your mind was blown when you first heard about someone running an ultra distance. I think that’s a fairly common reaction from someone who has never heard of ultras. We tend to set narrowly defined limits on what we think human beings are capable of.

That’s what’s strange about these races. For most people, they seem completely incomprehensible. People can’t even imagine running four times the distance of the marathon. When I heard about a 100 mile race, I was flabbergasted. My first ultra was a 50k. And I initially had no interest in running 100 miles or Badwater or anything like that. I just gradually raised my sights as I made progress at the intermediate distances. The neat thing about this sport is that you learn that you actually can be capable of what seems impossible if, over time, you put in the training and develop the skills and strategies necessary.

Tell me more about the transition you had to make from being primarily a marathon road runner to being a trail runner, which is where most of these ultras take place.

Part of the reason trail running was attractive was because of the painful pounding of the pavement. The marathons were painful. The trail running appealed to me because I thought it would be less wear and tear on the body. But, as I’ve gotten in better shape as a runner, I can deal with the pavement more effectively; and today, I am more indifferent between the two, although I still prefer the trails, and I do think they are easier on the body. I think most people would agree with that. The other thing that makes trail running much more exciting is the location. Nature. I’ve always enjoyed hiking and getting out into the mountains, the hills and the forests.

You are a big believer in natural running form and the whole minimalist running movement. Tell me more about your interest in that type of running.

I had no idea about natural running style until I read “Born to Run.” Christopher McDougall’s hypothesis in “Born to Run” made a lot of sense to me: cushioned running shoes promote an unnatural stride. People have actually studied this in places like Kenya. Kids growing up in towns wearing shoes run on their heels, and kids growing up in the countryside who are shoeless run on their forefeet. I took this information and I did an experiment. I went to one of my favorite trails and I was clomping along in my Montrail shoes, which are big, conventional, bulky shoes with a lot of cushioning protection. When I took the shoes off and I started to run barefoot, a light bulb went off in my head. It was a completely different feeling. It felt like it was supposed to feel. My legs didn’t feel like pile drivers, pounding vertically into the ground, like they had before. Instead, the foot was coming down carefully, absorbing the shock and transmitting it to the quads and the core muscles, rather than landing on the heel and the shock waves going up to the hips and back. Just that short, experimental run made a huge impact on me. That’s when I decided that this was the right way to run and that I was going to transition to minimalist running shoes. I did a little bit of research and I found the Inov-8 shoes, which I really like. I threw out my Montrail shoes and I transitioned fully to the Inov-8 shoes. This was just last year. I started to understand the importance of moving away from a heel strike. And I felt better in my running when I focused more on landing flat on the foot rather than on the heel. I would say that for many people, including myself, the heel strike is a possible contributor to injuries. In the last New York Marathon, I could feel myself at some point settling back into my heels and I could feel the shock waves going up right into my knees and into the ITB. I really do believe that the natural running style is much more satisfactory on trail or pavement. Ultimately, it’s a question of: do you want to get your feet used to doing the job they evolved to do or do you want to use the shoes to transmit that impact to other parts of your body? For me, I think the more natural style works better. But, everyone is different.

What sort of steps did you take to get into a more natural running form?

It took a lot of work at first. I had to learn to run on my forefoot going downhill. It’s a very different feeling. I also did some track practice with my coach, and he mentioned that my feet were flopping around and making a lot of noise as I ran around the track. I realized that I didn’t even really know how to use my feet. When you run barefoot, your foot sort of stretches out and utilizes the arch muscles to absorb the shock, but when you run with cushioned shoes, your foot just sort of flops around on the inside and it doesn’t work. I had to develop those muscles and learn to use my feet in the right way.

What results have you noticed from this transition to natural running form?

No ITB issues. No hip or back issues. That has all cleared up. Plus, I have gotten faster. But, it is putting more impact back into the feet, so I had plantar fasciitis and some tendonitis and some other aches and pains. But, I had figured it would take at least a year to transition. Now, after about 14 months of running like this, I feel very comfortable. But, I guess Badwater will be the ultimate test to see if I am fully transitioned.

You are running Badwater in your Inov-8 shoes?

Yes.

What attracted you to Badwater?

Races are all about setting goals and then working to meet those goals. I wanted to set the most aggressive goal that I could think of. Badwater captured my imagination because of the distance and the heat. It seemed like the most impossible thing that one could think of doing.

I want to ask you about your philosophy on pain. Pain is obviously a big part of these endurance events. How do you deal with the pain?

I believe that pain is 95% anxiety and 5% discomfort. Anxiety can really drain you of so much energy and it can make things feel so much worse. Usually, the actual pain is not that big of a deal. But, the anxiety that surrounds the pain – is my foot broken? Am I going to have to take three weeks off after the race? Am I going to have to stop at mile 70? – can be really debilitating. I’ve seen it happen in races where someone says, “I’m tired” or “I can’t go on,” and I think this sort of negative self-talk can make things worse than they already are. I’m very big on adopting a positive attitude where you avoid negative self-talk by focusing on troubleshooting: What are the issues? What are the causes? And what kind of action plan can I take to improve things?

This might be a good point to bring up again that topic of a black swan. Do you find that the concept of a black swan - these unexpected bad things - is a prevalent part of these ultra races?

The truth is I haven’t encountered a lot of black swans running ultras. The reality is that ultras are easy compared to the rest of life. In an ultra, you can – and this is part of the appeal of them – apply pure effort, and with some technique and with some strategy, you can accomplish something that to most people seems completely impossible. The whole thing is almost totally within your control. You rely on yourself and you demonstrate to yourself that you have what it takes to do something hard. Then you go back into the real world and you have markets, global economies, big corporations, politics, families, relationships. And all of that stuff is really complicated. You can’t necessarily go to work and just apply effort, you need to make judgments about incredibly complex situations. An ultra is tough, but there are things in life that are much tougher.

So why run ultras?

For me, an ultra is how I charge myself up. The appeal of the ultra is that it’s a chance to reinvigorate yourself and remind yourself that you have what it takes. An ultra is practice, and you develop some incredibly important capabilities in ultras. Then, you can take those skills back to the real world where there are more important things to do. You can apply the effort. You can get the job done. It’s within your control. Obviously things can go wrong in a race, but what can go wrong in a race that you cannot deal with? You might not finish the race. If you fall and break your leg, you are going to lie there until someone finds you. But, short of that, as painful or difficult as it might seem, the ultra is a relatively simple exercise.

You are running Badwater this year to raise money for a charity. Tell me about the New York Road Runners Youth Service Programs and why that program hits your heart.

My kids never needed much encouragement for staying physically active. They were fortunate that they can go to some good schools. They go to good schools with PE classes and teams and great coaches. The reason for the New York Road Runners Program is that there are a lot of kids who don’t get to go to schools with good physical education programs. In New York City, a lot of schools have little or no gym classes. And that is true in other parts of the country. For me, as a citizen of the U.S., it’s a concern that so many of our kids, in an increasingly sedentary culture, are not getting an introduction to sports and fitness. Kids are exposed to some real health problems as a result of lack of fitness. It’s also a missed opportunity because sports teach you that hard work, training, and discipline can translate into really exciting outcomes. With this program, kids get to make that connection between the work and the excitement. And they get the feeling of wellbeing that comes with being physically fit. It’s a very effective organization.

You ran Badwater in 2010. What made you want to sign up for the race a second time?

My daughter wanted me to do it. She said, “Dad, why don’t you sign up for Badwater so I can be on your crew?” Badwater is so time consuming and expensive. I hadn’t actually thought about going back and doing it multiple times until she made that suggestion.

And that is something you are doing different this year: having your daughter be there. How do you think that will affect her?

I'm hoping that she will see firsthand that when you train for something diligently and have an intelligent strategy, you can accomplish things that other people may not think possible. It’s a principle of life. It would be a great lesson for her, and it's one she could apply to the real world, even if she never cares to do long-distance running. If you put in the time and effort and you are disciplined enough to go about things intelligently, you can accomplish things that are big and cool and important and exciting.

Ken, I'm sure she will get that and so much more. I think you are a wonderful role model and I want to thank you for talking with me today. I wish you all the best in your training.

If you would like to learn more about how you can donate to the New York Road Runners Youth Service Programs, visit Ken's website at http://www.runwithtfk.org/Profile/PublicPage/3176 or follow Team Posner on Facebook.

Tales from the Furnace: The Badwater Chronicles

Part I: The Desert

"Why should the lovely things of the earth - the grasses, the trees, the lakes, the little hills - appear trivial and insignificant when we come face to face with...the desert or the vastness of the midnight sky? They are the great elements. We do not see, we hardly know if their boundaries are limited; we only feel their immensity, their mystery, and their beauty." -John C. Van Dyke, The Desert

The little insect scampered across the ground; its metallic blue-black wings shimmered in the late morning sun. The day was still as death, not a breath of wind. Just the pitilessness of that blazing white sun. Temperatures rose steadily as the hours went on, but the little wasp could not concern itself with the heat just yet. It was on the prowl, and the scent of its target was thick in the air. It was close. Swiftly it moved over the sand and rocks of the desert floor, until, before long, it happened upon a hole dug into the earth. Here it was: the thing for which it had been searching these past few days, tracking the scent with a ferocious intensity, as if life itself – its very survival – depended on finding it.

The wasp scurried down into the burrow, using its antennae to probe the darkness; in a single instant, it came upon a large, black body huddled deep inside the dwelling. The insect nicked the pulsating mass with its antennae, and in a flash, the colossal creature awoke to the intruder’s presence, scrambling up the burrow, forcing the wasp back up to the entrance, and into the daylight.

Now, out in the open, the two nemeses faced off and regarded each other with a primal aggression. There stood the spider, freshly emerged from its desert burrow, its hairy legs stemmed out from the thick, brown-black abdomen. The wasp lunged forward, as if to strike the tarantula, but the looming creature raised its front legs and bared its fangs. The wasp quickly retreated. It darted around the spider, and before the creature could even react, the wasp seized the tarantula by its hind legs and flipped it on its back. Unable to move, the spider flailed its limbs in the air to repel wasp, but it was too late: the little insect struck at its abdomen with its needle-like stinger.

The blow was fast, but effective. In just a few seconds, the spider went limp. The legs stopped moving; the body stopped thrashing. But, the animal did not die. It could sense what was happening. It could even see the wasp from where it lay. It watched as the winged insect moved closer, latched onto its body, and proceeded to drag it back towards the burrow. If the spider wanted to move, fight, or flee, paralysis made that wish a stark impossibility. Down the hole they went, until finally, they reached the end of the burrow.

The wasp climbed onto the tarantula’s abdomen and proceeded to lay a single egg on the spider’s thick body. Them she climbed out of the burrow and back up to the surface, leaving the defenseless spider with that precious egg egg – her future and the continuance of her species. She sealed up the narrow entrance of the burrow – now a burial vault – with dirt and rocks, so that nothing could disturb the scene that lay below.

For soon, that egg would hatch. And soon, the fat little grub that emerged – connected to the spider by the tip of its tail – would bend over and attach its head to the spider’s body and begin to suck. The tarantula might even still be alive as the baby creature rips into its abdomen and feeds on its insides. Thus, life will end and new life will begin here in the desert.

The Panamint Range glimmered in the distance. The sun rose higher in the sky. Somewhere off in the distance, a raven let out a low, guttural wail. For thousands of years Death Valley has teemed with life, both big and small. It is both womb and graveyard. Harsh yet beautiful. It is life and it is death. Its power is eternal. The spirits of the dead saturate the ground. They linger in the air. Those who enter the desert's grasp will feel that power and will be in awe of it.

Tales from the Furnace: Alexa Dickerson Pre-Race Q&A

Alexa Dickerson, 24, is an ultrarunner and Crossfit coach from Orange County, California. On July 16, 2012, Alexa will run 135 miles nonstop through Death Valley, in the legendary Badwater Ultramarathon. This year, she is the second youngest Badwater entrant and is one of the youngest female Badwater entrants in the race's 25 year history. I had the opportunity to talk with Alexa about her running career and what inspired her to sign up for "the world's toughest footrace." She will be running to raise money for the Dreamchaser Foundation, a charity in which the proceeds go directly to help AIDS orphans in developing countries. The following is a transcript of our conversation:

Why do you run?

That’s kind of a tough question. I just enjoy being outside. I’ve never been big into team sports and I like doing stuff on my own. I like the alone time. I like exploring the outdoors. I also like the competitive side of racing. I like that, since I put in all the effort, if I suck in a race, it’s all on me. I cannot blame teammates. I enjoy it.

Have you always been an athlete, Alexa?

I started doing track and cross country in high school, and before that, I did gymnastics in elementary and junior high. But, nothing super competitive. I just did it because it was fun. I started running during my freshman year of high school, and I’ve pretty much been running ever since.

Where did you grow up?

I grew up in Orange County, California. I’ve been here my whole life.

Was athletics a big part of your upbringing?

I was never forced to do a sport. My parents encouraged me to do it if I enjoyed it, but they never forced me into anything. I never really liked competitive team sports, like basketball or baseball. My dad had done track in high school and he was pretty good, so that’s what led me to try out for the track team when I got to high school. I thought, “I’ll try it out and see if I like it.” But I wasn’t really good at sports before that.

How did you get into ultrarunning?

I started ultrarunning when I was 19. I was a sophomore in college when I did my first 50k. At that time, I had done one marathon – I did the San Diego Rock 'n' Roll Marathon in 2007 – and two months later, I signed up for my first 50k and finished that. It was the Mount Disappointment 50k.

How did you find out about ultras?

When I was training for my first marathon, I didn’t know what I was doing or how to train. One of my stepdad's friends was training for the marathon and he was in a running club. My stepdad introduced us, and I ended up joining the running club so I could have people to train with. It turned out that several of the people in the running club ran ultras. So, after hearing about that for a little while, I decided to sign up for the 50k trail race because it sounded like a lot more fun than a road race.

How did you feel after the race?

I felt horrible! I mean, I loved it; I loved the experience. But, I don’t think I was really prepared for it. It took me 9 hours and 16 minutes, which is a very long time for a 50k. [Laughs]. I didn’t really know how to fuel properly, and it was in the mountains in August, so it was also really hot, and I hadn’t done much heat training or mountain running. So I didn’t go in prepared. After the race, I was so sore. I could barely walk the next day. It took me a while to recover. I remember I could barely run for like the next month. But, I finished. It was an amazing feeling of accomplishment. And I was hooked.

I’d imagine a lot of people would go through something like that and say, “No more. I’ve had it with these distances.” But, you didn't say that. What is it that had you coming back to ultras after that first experience?

It was just fun being out there in the mountains. I also just liked the feeling of doing something really hard and finding out what I am capable of. That feeling of accomplishment you have at the end of a race just makes it all worth it. And, back to what I said earlier about not liking team sports: when you finish a race, you get to say, “I did this because of me, all by myself." I really like that. It fills you with pride. Another thing is that the people I was running with were super nice and friendly.

What do you think you get out of racing these kinds of distances versus what you might get out of, say, a 5k or a 10k or even a marathon?

In a 100 mile race, there is a lot more to it than just being in shape. In a 5k, you train for it, you get in shape, and I guess small things could go wrong during the race, but probably nothing major. In a 100 miler, there are so many other aspects to it. Blisters can take you out. Or bad nutrition. It’s more of an adventure. Everything has to fall into place in order for you to do well and finish. It just makes things more exciting. I also just like the feeling of being completely trashed. [Laughs]. I know that sounds weird.

Well, you know, I think that’s interesting. I think pain and exhaustion are an important part of these events, and I’d actually like to come back to that topic a little later on. Now, you graduated from Cal State Fullerton in 2010. What did you major in?

Kinesiology.

And you were still running throughout college?

Yes, I was.

Did you find it difficult to achieve a balance between running and school life?

At some points it got hard. But, I’ve never been a super high mileage person. I always did my long runs on the weekend. And, during the week, I didn’t really run super high mileage. So it was easy. Well, not easy. But, manageable. And I worked at a gym. When I was in college, I worked at 24 Hour Fitness. And now, I work at a Crossfit gym. It’s easy to find time to work out when you work at a gym.

And what is Genr8?

Genr8 is the company that makes Vitargo. I do sales for them part-time. I’m also one of their sponsored athletes.

Tell me about that. Why do you like Genr8?

I was actually introduced to the product by my boyfriend. He is a partner in the company. Genr8 is the company and Vitargo is the product. Vitargo is one of those super carbs. It’s extracted from barley. It gets out of your stomach and into your muscles over two times faster than maltodextrin. Maltodextrin is what is in GU gels and CytoMax. Since it gets out of your stomach quicker, you can actually take in a lot more calories per hour. We have athletes taking in 1,100 calories an hour, and they have no bloating or stomach issues. It’s a pretty cool product. It’s a small company right now, but I like that. I get to go to trade shows and talk to other athletes. I like it because I know the company. They are reputable. We have university research behind our product that proves it works, so I know it is going to work for me during my races.

Will this be your main fuel at Badwater?

Yes.

What is your boyfriend's name?

Mark Matyazic.

Does he run?

Yes, he actually ran Badwater last year, and he is running it this year, too.

Are you going to run it together?

No, he is a lot faster than me. He got 6th place overall last year. He is in the 10 am start this year.

Is competition ever an issue in the relationship?

Obviously, we get kind of competitive with each other. I may joke around and say something like, “Oh, I’m going to beat you at Badwater.” But, he is a lot faster than me, so that’s probably not going to happen unless I have a really great race and he just blows up completely. But, I can tell that even when I joke, he doesn’t really like it. [Laughs]. It’s never really an issue, though. We both got into ultrarunning before we met each other.

How did you meet?

We both did the Coastal Challenge Stage Race. And we both did the Javelina Jundred. Not together, but we were both signed up and it was both of ours first 100 miler. That was back in 2009. We had a mutual friend, and before Javelina, I had gotten a stress fracture in my foot. Mark, who has been injured tons of times, had stress fractures before. So, he had this machine called a bone stimulator. [Laughs]. Sounds really funny. But, it helps heal bones. Basically, our friend introduced us so he could help heal my stress fracture before Javelina. And then we just started hanging out, and that eventually led to dating.

Do you train together?

We train separately because of our schedules. Sometimes we’ll run together on weekends. But, he has his way of training and I have my way of training. But, we’ll go to races together and we’ll do big stuff together, like go around the Grand Canyon or, sometimes when we go on vacation, like when we went to Cabo last year, we’ll run together on vacation. But, during a normal week, we usually train separately.

Between work and running, does spending that time apart ever become challenging?

I try not to let it affect me too much. I get a little jealous sometimes when he goes to do a race with friends and I don’t. But, running has always been his thing before me. And I had my running before I met him, so I think it’s good for us to do it separately. It’s our time alone from each other.

What do your parents think about your running career? Are they supportive?

I don’t think my mom was very excited when I found out I got into Badwater. I made the mistake of showing her the movie “Running on the Sun” a couple of years ago. So, of course she got this picture in her head of how dangerous the race is and people dying on the side of the road and stuff like that. And I tell her, “Mom, I have a crew. They are going to be with me every step of the way. I will get pulled from the race before anything ever gets that bad.” And, she has come around a lot more to the idea. She’s totally fine with it now, and I think, really excited for me. I don’t really speak to my dad that much, but I think he’s proud of me for getting in.

Will your mom be at Badwater?

No. My mom said she’d crew if I wanted her to, but I don’t really want her to.

Because you think she’d be worried?

I just don’t know how she’d do in that kind of heat. She’s not an experienced ultrarunner. She crewed me for my first 100 miler. But, this is different. I just don’t want her to see me if I am in really bad shape. Because then she will pull the “mom card” and say something like, “Oh, it’s okay for your to stop.” She’s seen me in bad situations in races before, but I think this just might be a little too extreme for her. I’d rather not have her there.

Alexa, what was the toughest moment you ever had during a race?

I think it was Western States in 2010. I was having a bad race. I was struggling to make cutoff times. I made the overall cutoff time by just five minutes. The last ten miles, every time I came into an aid station, I was making it by, like, a minute. I was cutting it really close. And then I had people yelling at me to get in and out of the aid station in less than a minute. And this was 95 miles into a race. It was very stressful. And I was already feeling like crap. That was not fun. Worst way to finish a race.

How did you first hear about Badwater?

I heard about it in high school. I just remember hearing about this crazy race out in Death Valley and that the most elite runners did it. I think I read about it, too, in runner magazines. When I got into ultras, I started hearing more about it. Then, I was asked to crew for it in 2009. Once I crewed for it, I knew I wanted to do it. I didn’t know that I’d be doing it so soon, though.

Who did you crew for?

Leigh Corbin.

How did you like the crewing experience?

I loved it. It was a lot of hard work, but it was such a cool experience. Seeing all the runners out there in the middle of the desert was just absurd and really, really cool. And Death Valley was just so awesome. It was super hot! [Laughs]. And it had more hills than I thought it would. It's funny, when I heard about the race, I just thought the main factor was the heat. I thought it was hot and flat. I didn’t realize the mountain ranges you go through are pretty tough. So, that was a learning experience. I just loved the whole experience. It made me want to race it myself.

What made you sign up this year? Take me through your thought process. You're sitting in front of your computer. You're filling out the application...

I wanted to do it last year because Mark was doing it last year and I wanted us both to do it together. But, I needed three 100 milers, and I DNF’ed what would have been my third 100. That was Javelina 2010. I got injured. So, I couldn’t apply. He applied. Got in. And, of course, I was really jealous that he got in and I didn’t. So, I applied this year. I filled out the application in New Orleans. There was a 126 mile race I did that I had to drop out of. Mark was crewing me. I had been injured off and on. For some reason, a week before the race, my injury flared up really bad. I had a popliteal and calf injury that I had developed during Javelina a few months prior. But, I still wanted to go out there and try to finish. During the race though it flared up really badly, and by mile 55 it was so bad. I had wanted to sit in the crew car for an hour and let it calm down but [Mark] said no. He had seen me limping since about mile 15, and it was just getting worse and worse. So, he made me call it a day. He didn't want me to keep going and do permanent damage. I was pretty upset. I was so pissed. I had wanted to use that race on my Badwater application. In order to apply you need a minimum of three 100 milers. I was already planning on applying, but I didn’t want to just have the minimum qualifications. I wanted to have more than that to boost my chances of getting in. But, I was so upset that I dropped that the next day when I woke up, I just filled out the application. It wasn’t that I needed to prove myself. I just needed something else to look forward to. I already knew I was going to apply, but the drop just made me more motivated to do it.

Were you expecting to get in? Or was it a surprise?

I guess I kind of thought I would get in because I’m a female and I’m a younger female and there aren’t too many young females who do the race. I guess I kind of expected it. It wasn’t a complete shock that I got in.

Now, you are being coached by a very accomplished woman. Tell me about Lisa Smith-Batchen and how that relationship came about.

I knew Lisa had done Badwater plenty of times. She had sent me an e-mail saying congrats for getting in and offering advice if I needed any help. Then, I saw that other runners had been coached by her. And I was reading a book. I forgot what it’s called. It was a book where each chapter talks about a different Badwater runner.

Scott Luwig’s "A Few Degrees From Hell"?

Yes! That one! And there were a few chapters where people said, “Oh, Lisa was my coach.” So, I e-mailed her asking her how she coached and how much she charges and so on. We talked about it on the phone, and we just hit it off. I knew that she knew what she was doing and would be a good coach. And we got along really well. And after we talked, she asked me if I wouldn’t mind running for a charity. Of course, when she explained how we would be helping kids and AIDS orphans, there was just no way that I could say no to something like that. It just sounded like a good cause. It just helps motivate me even more.

Have you always felt you trained better under a coach?

Yes and no. When I was training for Western States, I had a coach who was an ultrarunner and was a big promoter of Crossfit Endurance. We kind of argued and our personalities conflicted a lot. Even though I did feel like I was getting in shape under him, I didn’t feel like it was enough for a 100 miler. I think if the personalities are right and if the training philosophies are in sync, having a coach can be great. I can do really well under a coach. With Lisa, I just love her coaching. I love the workouts that she has me doing. With Brian, it was just too much of a conflict. But, for most of my ultras, I’ve actually just trained myself or I’ve taken advice from Mark. But, something as big as Badwater, I feel like I need a coach to make sure I’m not overtraining or undertraining. I just need to make sure that I’m doing things right because this is such a big race. I definitely don’t want to screw it up.

What kind of training schedule are you on?

She has me doing a lot of different things, which I like. This week is kind of my recovery week because I’m in between races. I did a marathon on Sunday and I ran a 50k on Saturday. But, usually she gives me all kinds of stuff. She incorporates hill work. She’ll have me do something like an 8 mile hill run, and have me run hard on the uphills and hard on the downhills and keep the flats at an easy pace. Or she’ll have me walk on a treadmill at an incline. I probably never would have programmed myself to walk on a treadmill at an incline, but obviously that’s going to be super important for Badwater because, clearly, I’m not going to be running up all those hills. I need to get used to walking. I also have easy days where I walk. Some days I go hard on just the hills. Some days I go hard the whole time. She also has me doing intervals, like do a half mile hard then a half mile easy. Stuff like that. It’s good that it’s not just putting in mile after mile with no rhyme or reason. Every workout has a purpose. She has me doing lots of cross training, too, like doing 15 minutes on the rower at a good pace or she’ll have me bike. She asked me to keep doing Crossfit, too. That's good because I won't get burned out on just running. I get to do other fun stuff.

Do you know what your peak weekly mileage will be prior to the race?

I don’t know. She gives me my schedules about a week or two weeks at a time. But, I don’t think she’ll have me going much over 70 miles. I think that’s what she said her max is. It’s totally manageable.

What time of the day do you like to train?

Usually, I run in the afternoons. I’m not much of a morning person. [Laughs]. Sometimes, I’ll train in the mornings, but it’s rare. It takes me a while to wake up and get in the mood to go workout. I’ll wake up, eat breakfast, do whatever I need to do around the house. Usually, I’ll workout at 12:30 pm. I teach a class from 12:30 pm to 1:30 pm, and then I have a three to four hour break. So, I’ll run during my break. Then, I don’t start working again until 4:30 when I teach my evening classes.

How do you eat?

I eat pretty well for the most part. I try to follow the Paleo Diet. The Caveman Diet. I try to eat as many natural foods as possible. The only thing I eat that’s not Paleo is probably rice. Sometimes I just can’t get enough carbohydrates on fruits and vegetables; I need more calories. Usually, for breakfast, I’ll eat eggs and then either rice or sweet potatoes or sometimes vegetables. I eat really well for a majority of the time.

Where is your favorite place to do your training runs?

Most of the time, I like to trail run, just because road running gets so boring. And you have lights and traffic on the road and it just takes forever stopping and starting and stopping again. But, there are some good roads out by where we live. There’s one road through Santiago Canyon that’s pretty scenic. But, I still like doing trail runs. I like to do El Moro, which is down by the beach. I train there a lot.

Do you run with music?

Yes, I always run with my iPod. I listen to all sorts of stuff. I’ll listen to pop stuff, like Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, and all that sort of girly music. I’ll also listen to Eminem or Linkin Park. Anything that has a good beat or rhythm to it and will keep me moving. It just depends what kind of mood I’m in. But, I pretty much listen to anything.

Are you heat training?

Well, I need to start actually. [Laughs]. I need to start getting in the sauna sometime soon. I need to talk to Lisa about that. Right now, I’m just trying to run when it’s hot out. But, I’ll probably start heat training soon. One of the good things about dating someone who has run Badwater is that we make trips out to Palm Springs, which gets almost as hot as it will be in Death Valley. We’re also going to go down to Mexico next month to get some heat training in.

Do you have a time goal in mind for the race?

I would like to be somewhat competitive. If I could get in the 30 hour range, I would be thrilled. But, who knows what could happen? But, 30 would have me stoked.

Going back to what we were talking about in the beginning about pain: What is your philosophy on pain? How do you handle it during a race? Do you love the pain of an ultra?

I don't love it. Although, I know that pain is a big part of an ultra, so maybe I do love it. It is sort of self-inflicted. [Laughs]. I guess I just like the idea of pushing yourself really hard. If you’re running a shorter distance, like a 5k, you finish and you feel good and that's it. I feel like if you run far, like a 100 miler, and you’re hurting, it just makes it feel so worthwhile. Knowing that you ache all over is kind of a good feeling. But, I don't know if I love pain. It’s not like I’m running and I say, “Oh yes! My knee hurts!” [Laughs]. But, knowing that you pushed through something that difficult and that you overcame it, that’s what feels good.

At 24, you are the second youngest Badwater entrant this year. How does that feel?

Well, I wanted to be the youngest. I was kind of disappointed when I saw there was someone younger than me. For girls, I mean. I know there have been a couple of guys who have been younger. Me and Claire will be some of the youngest girls to ever do Badwater, which is a pretty cool feeling. I just feel like there are a lot of girls – this is going to sound bad – who don’t push themselves. It’s just kind of cool that we are in our early 20s and we are doing this huge event and not many other girls would even want to attempt something like that.

Any fears?

No, not really. I’ll get nervous, but I’ll be prepared. 135 miles is a long way to go. You have a lot of miles to screw up and then fix it. It’s not like a 5k where you’re done in 20 minutes. I feel like in this long of a race, you just take it one step at a time and deal with stuff as it comes up. It doesn’t help much to get too worried about it beforehand. I’m more excited than scared. It’s a race. I’ll do it. It will be hard. Definitely the hardest thing I have ever done. But, I'll do it.